Talk:Valery Sablin

Untitled

Taken, apparently, from

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/Zwygart/zwygart.asp .

Copyvio?

Charles Matthews 21:44, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A bunch of Americans mistranslated Strozhevoi as Sentry - the noun strozhevoi does ment sentry but the Russians named all destroyers and frigates after adjectives e.g Udaloy = bold, Sovremenny=Modern Skory = Rapid etc. In this context Strozhevoi means Vigilant.

The Mutiny

Two things Sablin was a captian third rank

The Storozhevoy was a Kirvak I Class BPK (large anti-submarine) Destroyer

read the last "Sentry" Naval Institute Press

According to a recent radio program of France Inter

http://www.franceinter.fr/emission-rendez-vous-avec-x-novembre-1975-mutinerie-a-bord-du-vrai-octobre-rouge

whose main sources are listed on the above webpage, Sablin surrendered after the Storozhevoy had been hit multiple times and had taken numerous casualties.

The statement "Sablin surrendered after several bombs were dropped in front of and behind the ship." seems wrong: not "in front of" and "behind", they were dropped "on" the ship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nedboubacan (talk • contribs) 17:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Some Facts, Please

What do we know about his true unvarnished political views? Anybody, without propandistic POV? Dr. Dan 02:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Not a "dissident"!

Valery Sablin is not a "soviet dissident", let compare Sablin with a random choice Alexander Ginzburg:

1. Professional (G was journalist, poet, human rights activist; S was a career military officer; usualy dissidents are artists or from the acadima)
2. Non-communist (G sentenced three times to labor camps; S was a committed member of the Communist Party; all dissidents are non-communist)
3. Anti-Soviet (nationalist) (Sablin wanted to strengthen the soviet union and not break it up)
4. Non-popular (the usual dissident are elitist who keep in their own circles; S took over the ship with the help of the enlisted sailors)

Sablin is not a dissident, until the day of the mutiny he was a loyal officer of the Soviet Navy. He action were in the cause of the Soviet Union, to put him into the same category as people who activly worked to break it up is clearly wrong. --DelftUser 17:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

My response:

1. This is a fact.
2. "[A]ll dissidents are non-communist" is patently false. You should know better.
3. What bearing does this have on his status as a dissident?
4. This is completely irrelevant.

Valery took his first political step at the age of 20, writing to the Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev a letter denouncing the social inequalities which disfigured Soviet "socialism". This was a bold and courageous action, which could have meant, at the very least, ruining his career prospects, or even worse. Unsurprisingly, the authorities were not amused. Their response was a severe reprimand, as a result of which his graduation was delayed.

Valery Sablin's love of the navy came second to his devotion to the cause of the October revolution and the working class. His refusal to accept the offer of a naval commission initially shocked his family. But his brother Boris stated that much later he understood the reason. His brother wanted to understand how the system worked from inside. He wanted to understand the nature of the beast, as a prior condition for overthrowing it.

Sablin had made a careful study of State and Revolution and realised then that "the armour of the State and Party is so thick that even direct hits won't make a dent". he concluded that: "This machine has to be broken from the inside." The meaning of these words was revealed in the startling events of November 1975. [1]

He's not just a guy who led a mutiny. His (documented!) political differences with Stalinism go back much further than that. Besides, there aren't separate categories for "Soviet dissidents who wanted to overthrow the Soviet Union" and "Soviet dissidents who wanted to carry out revolutions against the Stalinist bureaucracy in favor of what they believed to be 'true socialism'". —Sesel 03:20, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

My rebuttal:

1. So we agree.
2. I am of course talking about those who are listed in the category, which one of them is communist? If it is “patently false” then you could show me one listed dissident who is a communist.
3. It has nothing to do with his “status as a dissident” it has to do with the fact that he does not belong in the same category with all the anti-communist, anti-soviet, pro-western dissidents.
4. This point is the most important thing at all! Dissidents dispised the people, Sablin didn’t.

I appreciate very much the long quote, I just want to point out that I am the one who listed the link to this article and changed & improved the Valery Sablin article (I added three sections).

Now, please understand that the word “dissident” is a Cold War term and the category Soviet Dissidents is for those people who are termed dissident by the west, to include Valery Sablin with them would be a mistake! --DelftUser 17:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Something's wrong?

In this article: "His second in command, Alexander Shein, received an eight-year prison sentence."

Compare On the other page, about the boat itself, it says this: "Sablin was executed by firing squad, while Shein was sentenced to prison and was released after serving over 10 years there." It dosen't really fit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.14.175.66 (talk • contribs)

Both could be correct, he might have been sentenced for eight years but ultimately spent over ten years in prison! --DelftUser 09:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Mod "the new order" lacks notability

Hi! i recently deleted the section on Sablin being a character in the HOI4 mod TNO. Previous examples of users attempting to note a character's existence in TNO have been struck down for not reaching a notability threshold (see taboritsky's talk page.) even the creators of the mod (of which i am one!) have asked players to stop doing this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/jaieni/please_do_not_deface_wikipedia/ Charlesthe50th, Talk 03:52, 28 May 2023 (UTC)