Talk:Shane Warne

Semi-protection

"In case of emergency, break glass." There was so much vandalism coming in that even with pending changes, it made it into live versions. Accordingly, I've semi-protected the article for a day. Any administrator may unprotect without consultation with me. —C.Fred (talk) 14:29, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

It seems a lot of the less savoury elements of his life have been removed as people rush to eulogise. I would suggest that someone appropriately authorised should review the portions that have been removed. -adfhau (talk) 9:47:30, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

adfhau what "less savoury" bits have been removed? The controversy section was removed, but all the content from it placed in the correct places chronologically, as we shouldn't have separate controversy sections. Apart from that, I'm not aware of anything else being removed/significant sections being moved around. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:00, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Organisation

The page is a bit of a mess. The lead appears fragmented as does the personal life/controversies part. Maybe merge both sections to reduce them down? Solipsism 101 (talk) 14:46, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Or maybe just say he was accused of extramarital affairs in one sentence and link the sources, rather than a year by year account. It is quite a taxing read as it stands. Solipsism 101 (talk) 14:48, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Reduced it some. Solipsism 101 (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Move the controversies into correct places chronologically, as we shouldn't be having controversy sections anyway. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:44, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image

Anyone else notice that the image in the infobox is a different aspect ratio and has a different colour to the actual image? Steelkamp (talk) 16:22, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Someone has modified the file. This may not be reflected in cached material on your browser. I've not tried to figure out which version is correct, but the photo clearly needs to show Warne's head in its actual shape... AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:43, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Having got in a mess trying to fix this at Commons, I think we are good now, at least as far as I can tell. I think there was some sort of cache issue, either with Wikimedia software, or with the browser (I'm using Chrome). AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Tributes

The list of tributing players should be in alphabetic order. ARog1983 (talk) 07:30, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

What is stopping you? WWGB (talk) 07:36, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

I don’t know how to link articles — I’m worried that if I reorder the list we’ll lose the links. ARog1983 (talk) 07:40, 6 March 2022 (UTC) EDIT: Done.

Foul play

Is it necessary to say, "Foul play was ruled out on 5 March 2022"? The article states in the previous line that he died of a suspected heart attack, and nothing in the article suggests he was a target for "foul play". It's just one of those things newspapers write. We don't need to include things that never happened. Magnolia677 (talk) 08:07, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. I reckon the Thai police are covering every boundary because he’s such a high profile Australian. (Apologies for the pun but you see what I mean.) ARog1983 (talk) 08:13, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

N Deleted. WWGB (talk) 08:51, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Such a young man. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:00, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the Tributes section

I, too, have noticed the tribute section getting quite large. That being said, I don't really feel like there's much there that isn't warranted—if anything, it's more of a testament to how popular he was. That being said, it is my opinion that any cutting of the tributes section be decided democratically. Thoughts?

Electricmaster (talk) 09:47, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

• Inevitably somebody will take the article to featured or good article status. It can be left till then. Desertarun (talk) 09:52, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Of course, almost everyone have ever played with or against him will offer a tribute. There is no need that every one to be reported here. The tributes should be left to those who represent more that themselves, such as national, international and sports leaders, Listing dozens of current and former players, musicians and actors is dross. WWGB (talk) 10:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Sure, much needs trimming/removing, its more about the timing. I personally wouldn't remove anything any time soon. Desertarun (talk) 10:21, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Needs to be vastly reduced DiamondIIIXX (talk) 20:22, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Done. Desertarun (talk) 21:17, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Good article

I've nominated the article for GA. It will need effort but isn't very far away. I will add others to the credits if they help at the time of review etc. Desertarun (talk) 15:56, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Good stuff. Still needs a fair bit of work, esp. with sourcing. But apparently, you don't need to source things if you simply link it to another wiki article. You learn something everyday! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:39, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

The article has had a thorough copy edit from GOCE so it can go for another run at GA. Desertarun (talk) 08:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Early career error

After winning the test with 3 late wickets at Colombo (SSC), Warne was dropped for the next test at Colombo (RPS) so the statement is misleading <cricinfo> edit required for this statement However, Warne's performances in the last two Tests in Sri Lanka were not to the satisfaction of the selectors Gismania (talk) 11:27, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2022

Change cause of death from "natural causes" to "suspected heart attack". If whoever has written the cause of death as of natural causes, then they would see upon sources from Sky News (courtesy of Google) that Shane died of suspected heart attack at 52. Whoever heard of a death of natural causes of 52 years old? 213.205.198.203 (talk) 16:50, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

• We shouldn't be listing speculated causes of death, as per WP:SPECULATION. What we should be doing is waiting until such a time as an actual cause of death is properly announced. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:54, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: The autopsy reports have revealed the reason behind the death of Australia cricket legend Shane Warne, who had passed away on Friday. Warne, aged 52, was initially revealed to have died of suspected heart attack while he was on a vacation in Thailand with his friends. Autopsy report, as confirmed by Thai authorities, revealed that he died of natural causes. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Shane Warne/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: No Great Shaker (talk · contribs) 15:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Review

I'll be happy to do this review. Hope to provide some feedback soon. No Great Shaker (talk) 15:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• Thanks. I've invited others to contribute to the GA via the talk page, so this may happen. Desertarun (talk) 15:35, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Result

I'm applying immediate WP:GAFAIL here because the article is not at all well written and it badly fails GACR#1. Although there has been no edit warring, I don't consider the article to be stable (as per GACR#5) because it was added to WP:GAN only days after Shane Warne's death and while a lot of activity was ongoing. I have studied the lead in depth and it doesn't comply with MOS:LEAD as well as being badly written. I've only skimmed the narrative but I can see the problems in the lead are repeated throughout.

Focusing on the lead, the points noted are:

• There is way too much about awards. The lead should really not mention any of these. The place for awards is in a later section of the narrative and it needs to be concise, preferably as bullet points.

• The opening paragraph needs to be a summary of his career and should mention the following:

his first-class career span was from 1991 to 2007 (omit the T20 stuff)

he was an international cricketer, not any old cricketer

he played domestic cricket for Victoria and Hampshire

he made 145 Test appearances, taking 708 wickets (omit first-class and limited overs stats)

• Given the above, the opening paragraph should say something like:

Shane Keith Warne (13 September 1969 – 4 March 2022) was an Australian international cricketer who played from 1991 to 2007 as a right-arm leg spin bowler and a right-handed batsman for Victoria, Hampshire and Australia. He is widely acknowledged to have been one of the sport's greatest-ever bowlers. He made 145 Test appearances, taking 708 wickets.

• As written, the opening sentence says he was simply an Australian cricketer. So was Frank Warne, whose article begins by saying he was a first-class cricketer.

• A right-arm leg spinner. What about his batting?

• considered as is poor grammar. Say recognised as or considered to have been. Better to use acknowledged to have been (see above).

• Remove the Cricketers of the Century bit from the lead – it is, in any case, not well written because the only specialist bowler and the only one still playing at the time is ambiguous.

• Warne played his first Test match in 1992 and took more than 1,000 wickets in Tests and One Day Internationals will confuse readers who aren't knowledgeable about cricket. Bringing ODIs into it loses the context. Keep them separate.

• In the second paragraph, the text jumps from Test to ODI; back to Test; then to awards; then, at last, his batting gets a mention; domestic; domestic again; back to Test. The non-cricket reader will probably give up now.

• In 2007, Warne was named in Australia's greatest ever ODI team. Context again. Was this an all-time team based on someone's opinion or was Australia's 2007 ODI team their best ever (like their 1948 team being the best ever in Test cricket)?

• where he played the roles of both captain and coach. This needs to say he was the player-coach who also captained the team. Coaches don't usually play so, as written, this may confuse the reader.

• In the 150th anniversary of the Wisden Cricketers' Almanack. It was the 150th edition. An anniversary is different.

• In 2012, he was also inducted into the Cricket Hall of Fame by Cricket Australia. Why also when there is no other mention of 2012?

• for the IPL 2018. IPL 2018 is an event title which does not have a definite article.

• His career was plagued by may present a false perspective. Better to say that he was involved in the off-field scandals.

• Refs 6, 7 & 8 should not be in the lead. I haven't checked but presumably there is content in the narrative about his impact on leg spin? If so, the citations should occur there, not in the lead.

• He was also honoured at a state memorial service at the ground after his death. This is, frankly, appalling. He would hardly be honoured with a memorial service while he was still alive.

I have only skimmed the narrative but I can see that the prose there is of a similarly poor quality and the list above is long enough to illustrate the problems. This should not have been nominated and a considerable amount of work will have to be done to bring it up to the required standard. No Great Shaker (talk) 21:43, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

No worries, you've given something to work on regardless. Desertarun (talk) 22:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Note to next GA reviewer: The article has had over 90 edits from WP:GOCE since this GAN. I believe the prose problem to be fixed. Desertarun (talk) 08:31, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

How old is brother

How old is brother 110.174.80.168 (talk) 05:31, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Shane Warne/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Boca Jóvenes (talk · contribs) 16:21, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this, though it will take several days as the coverage is very broad. BoJó | talk UTC 16:21, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Actually, it doesn't need much time after all because it is an immediate WP:GAFAIL, as it was in its first review earlier this year. The main problem last time was the prose, especially in the lead, but this time it is the coverage. There is only one mention of Warne's career with Victoria and little more about his time with Hampshire. Also, the sentence about Victoria is incorrect because it was a first-class match in which Victoria played Western Australia – it was not a match involving Victoria Bushrangers and a team called W. Another error is in the best performances table where it reads that he took 6/42 for Surrey v Hampshire. The whole article needs to be combed to omit errors like these.

While there is too little about Victoria and Hampshire, there is far too much in sections 9 to 13 which contain no less than a third of the total content. The reader who comes to this article is looking for coverage of his cricket career, not trivia about Kath & Kim, or Messages On Hold or Liz Hurley. The tribute and memorial sub-sections are WP:UNDUE and, in part, amount to name-dropping of so-called "celebs". You would do well to consider Don Bradman#Later years and death which has about 290 words and includes everything that needs to be said about his death, memorial service and eulogies.

There is one strong prose criticism which is the number of short, often single-sentence, paragraphs. Also, some of the sentences need sense-checking. "During the county season, reports Warne had repeatedly sent lewd SMS messages to an English nurse emerged" should say "reports emerged that" or "there were reports that". The lead is okay, however, and there are no problems with POV or WP:OR. I haven't checked the sources thoroughly but they seem okay at face value. There are plenty of appropriate images and I'm not aware of any problems there. The article is stable as regards no edit warring although I see there are vandalism problems and it might be advisable to request protection.

To summarise, I am failing the review immediately because, per GAFAIL #1, the article "is a long way from meeting one of the six good article criteria". In this case, it is a long way short of GACR#3 in that fails both 3a and 3b. The changes needed to resolve this issue do not justify placing the article on hold. BoJó | talk UTC 21:29, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

• Comment to reviewer. I believe you are correct, sections 9 through to 13 are WP:UNDUE. After Warne's death a lot of content was added that understandably falls under WP:MEMORIAL. I will begin to trim and remove it. Desertarun (talk) 08:29, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Desertarun. That's fine. I'll watch the article and see if I can help, time allowing. Will be glad to review it again when it is ready. Thanks. BoJó | talk UTC 12:27, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Boca Jóvenes, thanks for that. Desertarun (talk) 13:47, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi Boca Jóvenes. I've fixed everything mentioned in the GA assessment except discussion of his domestic career. I couldn't find a source to summarise his time at Hampshire and Victoria. I've asked at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket to see if someone can point me in the right direction or if you can think of anything let me know. Regards, Desertarun (talk) 08:41, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Domestic and T20 career sections

Should these sections be combined? I understand that chronologically the T20 stuff comes after his international career, but would it fit more appropriately with the domestic career section alongside Victoria and Hampshire? Adc95 (talk) 09:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Pronounciation

How is "Warne" pronounced? ----MountVic127 (talk) 05:56, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

The first three letters are pronounced just as they are as a single word - "war", then you just stick an "n" on the end. The "e" is silent. The whole word rhymes with "torn". HiLo48 (talk) 06:49, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@HiLo48 Thanks. Many pages quote the IPA alphabet. ----MountVic127 (talk) 09:04, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I have tried several times to get my head around IPA, all to no avail. HiLo48 (talk) 11:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)