Talk:Ding Junhui

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Ding Junhui has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: September 13, 2019. (Reviewed version).

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Snooker High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of snooker on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

China Mid‑importance

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cue sports High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pool, carom billiards and other cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Cue sports to-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Lots of high-priority articles need to be created:

List of wanted articles...

Games: A bunch of high-priority game redlinks, e.g. American four-ball billiards (redirs to Four-ball billiards but not specifically covered there)
"Legends": Edwin Kelly, Charlie Peterson (pool player) (all BCA Hall of Famers); George Franklin Slosson, Maurice Daly (billiards player), Frank Ives, George Butler Sutton [not George H. Sutton, the one with no hands]
Male pool bios: Hsia Hui-kai
Female pool bios:
Male three-cushion bios: Dion Nelin & Jozef Bel Philipoom
Female carom bios: Aygen Berk Saygıner
Aristic pool bios: Nick Nikolaidis, Mark Dimick,Sebastian Giumelli, Eric Yow
Unranked in current pool but notable: Mike Eufemia, Shannon Daulton, Jimmy Reid (pool player) [speed pool champ], var. Mosconi Cup players
Non-player figures: Mitch Laurance, George Fels
Five-pins bios: Gustavo Zito
Organizations: Joss Tour
Events: WPA World Nine-ball Championships (pre-1997), BCA Open Nine-ball Championship, World 14.1 Continuous Championship, International Challenge of Champions (pool)
Media and misc.: Iwan Simonis (leading billiard cloth maker), Joss Cues (major cue mfr.), The Baron and the Kid [Johnny Cash film], Ultimate Pool Party [TV show]
And: everyone/thing listed at WP:CUEGAMES, WP:CUEEVENTS, WP:CUEORGS, WP:CUEBIOS, & WP:CUEMISC. Also a Cue sports world records article (many can be pulled from bio articles like Geet Sethi, Guinness Book will provide others, and so will BCA and other orgs., websites and books like Shamos 1999).
Meta: Outline of cue sports (OoK; cf. [1], etc.) – presently redirects to Cue sports, but this is not an OoK page.
Internal pages: Something like: [2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf. [4][5][6]).

Cleanup : Thomas Engert, Marlon Manalo
Copyedit : Jonni Fulcher
Expand : Cue sports techniques#Carom shots (section needs to exist), Straight pool, Alfredo de Oro,Jeanette Lee (pool player)
NPOV : Andy Segal (major WP:COI and WP:V issues, too), Jose Parica (it's bad!); Efren Reyes, Thomas Engert, Dennis Orcollo, Dick Jaspers
Photo : Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports people
Split : List of World Eight-ball Champions - blackball stuff needs own article {draft split from real eight-ball one (draft).
Stubs : loads of players in Category:Cue sports stubs
Update : Arcade game (link to bagatelle, bar billiards, etc.)
Verify : Cue stick (mostly WP:OR!), Frank Taberski (has major fact conflict between BCA & NYT sourcing), Russian pyramid, add sources to Unreferenced BLPs
Wikify : Chicago (pool), Jonni Fulcher
Other :
- Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of nine-ball, timeline of Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
- Form sections: Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
- CopyVio rewrite:
- Clarify: What is the "continuous pool" listed above "14.1 continuous" at Alfredo DeOro?
- Delete or defend:
- Move/Rename (and Redirect):
- Redirect:
- Unorphan:
- Ensure: that rules discussions in game articles & the Billiard techniques article do not violate WP:NOT#IINFO.
- Help fix: WP:CUEBIOS#Pool players (women) is nearly empty!
- Help develop: the lists of WP:CUEORGS and WP:CUEEVENTS
- Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
- Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see Ding Junhui for example).
- Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g. 1965 in sports), using {{subst:Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
- Change:
- Replace:
- Some day: Seek Featured Topic status.
- Plunder: the French article; it does have some interesting tidbits, structure and images. Check out de.wikipedia, etc., as well.
- Inter-wiki: Improve simple:Billiards and foreign-language key articles.

See also: Snooker to-do list

Note: To watchlist this to-do list, click on "watch" at top right of this table. Watching the page it is transcluded on won't watch the to-do list.

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

3 ranking titles before 20

Ronnie didn't win 3 rankers before he turned 20, did he? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.249.194.40 (talk) 20:03, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Changed - Well spotted. I've changed the sentence in the lead to "Ding became the second player after John Higgins to win three ranking titles before their 20th birthday". Andygray110 (talk) 20:21, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Age he started playing?

This is listed as 9 and 8 in two separate parts of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.94.92 (talk) 21:30, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

PASSED GA

Article is pretty much there. Probably needs a slight copyedit, but nothing major. Happy to pass for now

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ding Junhui/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 08:14, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria - Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:17, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It contains copyright infringements - Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:17, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). - Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:17, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. - Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:17, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Links

two refs have CS1 errors Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:48, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:41, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

Lede

First two sentences are good - then it starts talking about him winning the six-red world title and amateur titles. His Masters and UK championships are much more noteworthy so should be here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 07:45, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
in general the lede needs re-ordering. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 07:45, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ding became the second player under the age of 20 after John Higgins to win three ranking titles. - not sure how this is ledeworthy Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Kept for now. Should I delete the whole sentence or rewrite? Bobbychan193 (talk) 07:45, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's fine in prose, but in the lede it's really obscure. It's hardly his big claim to fame. If he was the first, it might be different. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:50, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - Deleted. Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:16, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Six red is mentioned twice Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Bobbychan193 (talk) 07:45, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In 2016, he became the first Asian player to reach the final of the World Championship. - reaching the final should be higher up the lead. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 07:45, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He remains the only Asian player to be ranked world number one, which he first achieved in 2014 to become the 11th player to reach the top spot. - should say he was world number one, which is a big deal, and that he is the only Asain player to be ranked this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:06, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He is a resident of England during the snooker season - he is either a resident or not. It's not something that is seasonal. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done new sources too, old one did not provide relevant information. Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:31, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All nicknames need to be cited somewhere. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:16, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lede should probably mention his 5 titles at the Asian Games. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:06, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Could we include his Masters win in the lede? It's conspicuously absent right now. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:05, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:45, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Career

Ding Junhui was born in Yixing, Jiangsu, China. - Add DOB and cite Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done with citation Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:31, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He began playing snooker at eight years old after his father, a pool enthusiast, took him along to practice with a professional at a local pool hall. - I'm guessing his dad went to practice, if he had to go to the toilet for Ding to play. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:54, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
His performance impressed many commentators, who rated him as a likely future World Champion. ^{[citation needed]}
- Couldn't find a source; deleted. Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:57, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above needs to be merged with the paragraph below Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:57, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
top-16 - no hyphen. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:57, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In December 2005, Ding beat Jimmy White, Paul Hunter and Joe Perry to reach the final of the UK Championship. In the final, he beat Steve Davis by 10–6 to become the first player from outside the UK to win the tournament. Following this victory, Ding's provisional world ranking rose from 62 at the start of the season to 60 and then to number 31. At the end of the season, he was ranked number 27 ^{[citation needed]}
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 02:57, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
At the 2006 China Open - link the event and needs a cite Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
During the Northern Ireland Trophy event, he beat Stephen Lee 6–1 and played Ronnie O'Sullivan in the final, which he won 9–6 to win his third ranking tournament - needs to know when he beat Lee. It was more than a two round tournament. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ding's win in Northern Ireland pushed his provisional ranking up to world number five ^{[citation needed]}
- Couldn't find a source; deleted. Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In December 2006, Ding won three gold medals at the 2006 Asian Games, winning the single, double and team snooker competitions. ^{[citation needed]}
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
On 14 January, Ding made a 147 break in his first-round match against Anthony Hamilton at the Masters - needs to say it was his first Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This , along with th - spacing Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I fixed this in an earlier edit. Let me know if I am mistaken. Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:43, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
2007–2009 second para has just one cite - it's a really big moment, could we get a few more? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In March 2007, Ding qualified for the televised stages of the 2007 World Championship - remove second 2007 Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:12, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following season, Ding was consistent, reaching the last 16 of all-but-one ranking event ^{[citation needed]} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's going to be hard to find one source that says that, so I can delete the unsourced part if you want. Added citation for ranking. Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
At the Crucible, he reached the second round for the first time, - "The Crucible" means nothing here. Say the world championship Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:12, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
high-quality - fails WP:NPOV Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:04, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
During the Premier League Snooker against Stephen Hendry, Ding set a record for the most unanswered points (495) in any professional snooker tournament.[22] The record was surpassed in 2014 by Ronnie O'Sullivan with 556 unanswered points - needs a reword. Unanswered points needs explanation Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:18, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ding started the 2008/2009 season on a high, winning the Jiangsu Classic and beating Mark Selby 6–5 in the final. - ^{[citation needed]} - paragraph is a bit small. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done and expanded. Bobbychan193 (talk) 04:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Could we have less paragraphs that start "Ding began the X/Y season..."? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:04, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
t the World Championship, Ding defeated Stuart Pettman 10–1 but lost 10–13 against Shaun Murphy in the second round. - ^{[citation needed]}
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 04:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
leading 8–2 at one point - "at one point is superfluous. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:22, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
merge first two paras of 2010/2011. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:22, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Could we get subsection titles? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- What do you mean? Bobbychan193 (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He finished the year ranked world number 11, having dropped seven places during the season - at no point does it say he was at 4 after the previous season. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Added ranking for previous season + source. Bobbychan193 (talk) 04:07, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Achievements needs a lot of work. There's three ^{[citation needed]} tags that need citing Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:36, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure being a patron of a football club is important Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Definitely not an "achievement". I moved it into the new "Personal life" section. Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:36, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Outstanding comments

Masters win to be added to lede Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Done Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Subsections for career need titles Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still a little confused by this. So instead of "2014/2015", it would be like "Career Peak"? How do you want me to do this? Should I combine some of the seasons? I don't think I'm creative enough to come up with 10+ titles. Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
slight expansion for 2018/19 season 08:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
- Which tournament(s) should I include? Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Could we reorder "Achievements"? The stuff about his victories are more important than his breaks. The Masters (which is a big deal) is barely mentioned, whilst each of his 147s are commented on. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Swapped the two paragraphs. Bobbychan193 (talk) 08:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Comments

Automated note - If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definately not manditory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
@Lee Vilenski: Thanks for picking up the review (as well as all the comments thus far). I’m currently busy IRL, so it may take a while for me to work through all the improvements needed. Bobbychan193 (talk) 22:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: Done for now, but I'll be back later to address the rest of the comments. I've made quite a lot of edits if you want to review them. Thanks for the help again. Bobbychan193 (talk) 09:24, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: Finished addressing all of your comments. I will expand the article to include the 2018/2019 and 2019/2020 seasons. Bobbychan193 (talk) 04:08, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Just finished expanding for the 2018/2019 season. I think I will hold off on expanding 2019/2020 for now, seeing as there have only been three tournaments so far. Bobbychan193 (talk) 05:18, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've added some of this. I think this pretty much covers everything. I'm sure there are some prose errors in there, but I don't think it's enough to fail the GA (easily cleanup). I'll pass this one for now. Congrats. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:07, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.