Talk:Grandfather clock

Expansion of the article

Should we think about a discussion of the different kinds of clock faces? Originally they were brass, and painted faces came later for instance. It's a way of dating a clock. Evertype 10:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the name "grandfather clock"

The story on the origins of the term "Grandfather Clock" is interesting, but it sounds rather apocryphal. Perhaps it could be rewritten to clarify which parts are documented evidence and which parts are legenday?

Two pendulums

Whoops! Yes, I meant weights, and the additions and correction are most welcome, Adrian! Evertype 19:38, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 10:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Proposal to rename this article

The proper name of a Grandfather Clock should be a Longcase Clock. I haven't heard the story about the hotel clock before, but the "Grandfather Clock" name does come from the nursary rhyme. JP Godfrey 12:24, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with this; the proper name for these is Longcase Clock, and the redirect should be from Grandfather clock to Longcase clock, not the reverse. Evertype 17:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard the term "longcase clock" before and wouldn't be able to imagine what it referred to. Incidentally, the Henry Clay Work song isn't a nursery rhyme; it's too long for that, with several verses and a refrain. Angr (talk • contribs) 19:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I haven't heard longcase clock either. The only reason everything links here rather than to what is now a redirect (grandfather clock) is because they were changed. It seems that this should have been put up for a requested move if someone wished to change it. --Vedek Dukat ^Talk 20:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The original and proper name for these is nevertheless Longcase Clock, and there is no reason to revert. Evertype 21:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

What is proper is not always the most common name, which is the convention Wikipedia uses... Again, you can put it up for a requested move if you'd like to move it to longcase clock rather than grandfather clock. --Vedek Dukat ^Talk 06:49, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I object to your moving the article back. The proper name should be used, and the redirect from grandfather clock should suffice. I kind of want to ask, who are you to revert my moving the article? Moving it was being bold and wasn't done precipitously or rashly, or to make anyone angry. It was done for the sake of accuracy, and undone because you hadn't heard the term before. Evertype 09:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

It was done because Wikipedia articles are generally under the most commonly used name, not the pedantic one. Until now, there was no mention of grandmother clocks in the move rationale, which I suppose makes sense. The point about using WP:RM was that, when there is disagreement about a name, the move request should go there. --Vedek Dukat ^Talk 20:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The term "longcase" predates "grandfather" and is more generic, as all longcase clocks are not grandfathers (there are grandmother clocks which are smaller for instance). The term "longcase clock" is used by horologists, clockmakers, etc. This request folows on from a renaming dispute; someone had proposed it to be moved, I agreed and moved it, then someone else moved it back. The usual story, I suppose. I think that the article should be under the more accurate general name, and that the redirect should be from the later popular name to that. Evertype 09:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support As I have requested. Evertype 09:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Support I don't feel very strongly one way or the other but am inclined towards the "correct" longcase rather than the popular grandfather for the following reasons: (1) "longcase" was the term for 200 years before "grandfather" became popular; (2) clock experts generally use "longcase"; (3) having the main article on "longcase" allows both "grandfather clock" and "grandmother clock" to redirect to "longcase clock". Adrian Robson 12:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

(Later, after doing a quick search on Google for "longcase" I found that Encyclopedia Britannica uses "longcase", as does the BBC's Antiques section. That doesn't mean Wikipedia has to slavishly copy them and use "longcase"; it just highlights that the term hasn't fallen out of use.) Adrian Robson 23:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Support, per Adrian Robson's 3rd reason above: in a nutshell, it will simply be easier for users to find what they are really looking for. With that said, my father has worked professionally on antique and new clocks for over a decade (authorized repairman for Howard Miller and Seth Thomas), and he never uses the term "longcase clock" to my knowledge. I am not sure that the second claim above ("clock experts generally use 'longcase'") can be verified. I would say that "longcase" is more useful for our purposes here because it allows us to condense two articles into one that should be sufficient for the needs of both subcategories. I don't think it is our place to decide that an archaic linguistic variant is somehow objectively "correct." That, IMO, would be a violation of NPOV. Dick Clark 15:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak support per Clark's rationale. --Vedek Dukat ^Talk 20:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Support The term "grandfather clock" is a colloquialism that came into use after "longcase", as described by Adrian. A few surfs around antique clock shops and you'll find there's something of a consensus that the correct name for a grandfather clock is a longcase clock (or, more specifically, a floor standing longcase clock). As Wikipedia grows not only in volume of content but also a strong reputation for accuracy, I believe we should endeavor to sustain technical correctness, particularly in areas attempting to offer valid definitions. Brendan Kehoe 23:29, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose: use the common name most readers will know. Thumbelina 17:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Rather than try to prove some nebulous linguistic point about the "correct name", it may be preferable to keep the current name and to mention early on something about how "Grandfathers clocks are one of several types of longcase clocks." We could maintain a unified article or have a general longcase article and then a "grandfather" article, "grandmother" article, etc., if there is enough information go around. I have no doubts about there being plenty for "longcase" and "grandfather," but "grandmother" and any others may get short shrift. Dick Clark 18:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment: I don't think we have enough material for separate articles, and so I still think Longcase clock is the best umbrella for this topic. Evertype 09:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose Antiques Roadshow calls it a "grandfather clock": I call it a "grandfather clock" -- I don't care what any whorologist says[1]. Ewlyahoocom 08:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment That PBS Antiques Roadshow link cites a Pennsylvanian expert "Your mentor, Gordon Converse, an antique clock expert out of Stafford, PA continues. He says that grandfather clocks were called longcase clocks or tall case clocks prior to that mid-19th-century American song." -- so the term hasn't fallen out of use, though there are alternatives, such as the term you prefer. Note too Adrian's citation of the Encyclopaedia Britannica and the BBC's equivalent of the Antique's Roadshow. I remain convinced that Longcase clock should be the article title, and other names, popular or not, should redirect to it as they are instances of longcase clocks. Evertype 09:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

• Support. Use more inclusive term. Otherwise, where would we put stuff about Grandmother clocks? (Oops, looks as if 'What links here' is already set up in favour of the move.) Noisy | Talk 14:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ummm... dude... just move it and STFU.

Wikipedia official naming policy

According to Wikipedia's official policy regarding naming conventions, "Generally, article naming should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." Furthermore, according to Wikipedia's common name naming convention, "When choosing a name for a page ask yourself: What word would the average user of the Wikipedia put into the search engine?" I did a Google search for "longcase clock" and "grandfather clock" and got 46,300 results and 843,000 results, respectively. Note also that the article on Mark Twain is titled "Mark Twain", not "Samuel Langhorne Clemens", even though the latter was his legal name. The article on Billy the Kid is named "Billy the Kid", not "Henry McCarty". This is Wikipedia's official naming policy. Naming this article "Longcase clock" rather than the more popular "Grandfather clock" violates Wikipedia naming policy, even if the former is more correct. --JHP 01:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The correct name as used here doen't "violate" policy, which is a guideline. "Generally" article naming might prefer a common term, but that doesn't mean an article "must" do so. A grandfather clock is only one type of longcase clock. The redirects get you here from a variety of subtypes of longcase clock. It ain't broke... -- Evertype·✆ 08:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Help - broken picture

Can anybody fix the first image in this article? On my browser it appears blank (white). However he source image on Wikimedia Commons seems to be there. Can't find the problem. --Chetvorno^TALK 23:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

If by the first image you mean the photo of the Thomas Ross clock, it looks fine here. -- Evertype·✆ 08:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, guess it's my browser. Thanks --Chetvorno^TALK 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Shifted picture and deleted picture

I don't really understand BrokenSphere's edit. The Turkish clock photo is really rather bad, and shouldn't showcase the article. I'd even be OK with deleting it. An English clock from 1790 is a far better example. I'll try to do a rearrange that is more pleasing. -- Evertype·✆ 21:19, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Comtoise and Bornholm clocks

I've merged the new Comtoise Clock article here; the French original has more information which we can mine for this article. I also translated the Bornholm clock article from the Danish Wikipedia and added it here. -- Evertype·✆ 10:35, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Can I edit?

As an antiques dealer myself I have written an article about the history of longcase clocks for my shop's website. I've noticed some inaccuracies in this particular article and feel I could add to it. I have never edited a Wikipedia article before. Would I simply add my content then reference to the article on my site. Is there a protocol on references linking to other websites? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.141.252 (talk) 17:45, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You can edit, but please do back up your edits with links. So long as your edit is factual and not commercial, it can be acceptable. Sources to printed books are also great. Please consider registering (so you are not identified as an IP address. And when you finish writing on a Talk page (like here) you can sign your post with four tildes ~~~~ and it will convert into your username and timestamp. -- Evertype·✆ 19:03, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

grandfather vs grandmother

My understanding has always been that a grandfather clock has straight sides and a grandmother clock is narrower in the middle section. Height may also play a part, but the primary difference is the construction. Googling grandfather clock and grandmother clock illustrates the difference nicely.

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    grandfather   grandmother

JBarta (talk) 01:48, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Possible origin of "grandfather clock"

It has been suggested that a popular song, My Grandfather's Clock, is the first use of the term. However, there is at least one literary work of the same year, 1876, that may be the first usage with an illustration (that I've found):

• The Catskill fairies By Virginia Wales Johnson, Harper & Brothers, Publishers, Franklin Square, 1876.

It may be premature to list the song as the source.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 19:02, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I have found it in an 1817 publishing...

• Ovid's Art of love, Remedy of love, Art of beauty, and Amours, By John Dryden Ovid, p.23. Knight & Smith Printers, 62 East Smithfield, 1817.

++++++ This was so weird I had to check it out. The fact is that the Ovid text is followed (with no break) by "Wee Mcgreegor"(1903)by John Joy Bell. Google books just tacked it on at the end!

80.116.189.235 (talk) 19:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

External Links

Must say, I'm surprised and concerned that ALL the External Links, bar one, are to clock dealers' websites! Doesn't this constitute some form of advertising? Clock dealers add these general information pages to attract people to their websites, increase their search engine ranking and hopefully, buy their products. The other link seems to be a Moving Home blog, which is a bit random to say the least. Shouldn't external links be restricted to non-commercial webpages only? I say this because I recently designed a website for a longcase clock dealer and I'm sure he'd blow a fuse if he discovered his competitors were being advertised by Wikipedia!! Sionk (talk) 22:40, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

See Wikipedia's policy on Self Published and Questionable Sources. Sionk (talk) 23:22, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Continuing the debate with myself(!), if you look at the example of the Wikipedia article on Cuckoo Clocks you'll see the External Links are to non-commercial organisations such as museums and associations. No self-appointed 'expert' clock dealers listed. I'll keep on looking for appropriate authoritative links for the Longcase Clock article (there's the London Guild of Clock Makers, for example). Sionk (talk) 22:46, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

ADD TO EXTERNAL LINKS BILBIE FAMILY OF CLOCKMAKERS Currently there is no mention of the Bilbie family who specialised in longcase clocks. See Moore, J. Rice, R. and Hucker, E. (1995). Bilbie and the Chew Valley clockmakers : the story of the renowned family of Somerset bellfounder-clockmakers /Clockmakers.

109.52.22.180 (talk) 05:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Grandmother has gone missing

On 1 October 2012 a description of "grandmother clock" was removed from this article as being unsourced. Now Grandmother clock redirects to this article, which does not mention it at all. WP has no information at all on grandmother clocks. This should be remedied. Chris the speller ^yack 01:23, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

I just checked, and the granddaughter went missing at the same time. Several dictionaries define "grandmother clock" as being about two-thirds the height of a grandfather clock; the dictionary definition alone should keep any sensible editor from removing any mention of it, I think. Chris the speller ^yack 01:45, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Oval Office grandfather clock

I've just created the article Oval Office grandfather clock - aka Seymour tall case clock. As far as I'm aware this is the first WP article about a specific/individual longcase clock. I created the Category:Longcase clocks too, and it now contains that one article and this one. So, I assume that new article should be linked in this one, somewhere, but not knowing this article well I don't want to mess it up. Would someone like to integrate this new specific clock article, or shall I just add it to the 'see also' section? Wittylama 16:20, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 4 May 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page as proposed at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:16, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

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Longcase clock → Grandfather clock – Per WP:CommonName. "Grandfather clock" is by far the most common name for this type of clock. Rreagan007 (talk) 08:00, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support, of course, and thank you for finding this and bringing it to RM. And per Captain Kangaroo, who had one, and the Oval Office grandfather clock, on display. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:51, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support In ictu oculi (talk) 15:58, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support - per Google Ngrams, "grandfather clock" dominates usage. -- Netoholic @ 19:13, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:35, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Weights calibrated?

@PremierClocks: Re your recent edit - the weights have to be calibrated? I've never heard of that. --Chetvorno^TALK 04:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Technical Editing

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 5 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ALCH3MIST1011 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by ALCH3MIST1011 (talk) 20:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Japanese Clock Picture is not a Grandfather

While is a pendulum clock, as per the article description, that's not a grandfather clock, it must be taller and reach the floor. That's just a wall pendulum clock... 186.122.180.78 (talk) 14:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)