Talk:Fear Factory

Groove Metal

Why is wikipedia the first place I've heard of this genre? FF have never been "Groove" metal, theyre Industrial, and their early stuff is death metal, Burton's vocals changed from Soul of a new Machine, to Obselete. Can we kill this weird genre please? Jay794 19:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I concur. Ever since Dimebag's death it seems to get thrown about a lot. Rehevkor 20:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

So can we remove the genre? Jay794 16:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've removed it and any references. It's existence as a legit genre is suspect at best, I had not even heard of the genre at all until Dimebag's death. Rehevkor 17:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Why do you two keep removing this genre. It covers at least four of their albums and the kind of thrashy stuff. I mean, if we were to remove it, then I would strongly suggest we add thrash metal. Thundermaster^{Thundermaster's Talk} 10:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

No thundermaster, Fear Factory aren't "groove metal" groove metal isn't even a real genre. Fear Factory are Industrial, like Static-X or Rammstein, only their ealy stuff like SOANM or Concrete are Death Metal, because of Burtons vocals, we have already discussed it so I will go ahead and remove it. Jay794 (talk) 12:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought you agreed not to get involved in disputed genres, Thundermaster? But you instead claim my edits are undiscussed (they're right above this) and add a condescending tag to my talk page? Grow up. For your sake. Rehevkor (talk) 14:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Jay794, groove metal is a real genre, it's a sub-genre of thrash. But if you two, don't want groove metal there, fine, we won't put it there. However, can we at least cover the thrashy stuff they have done, as something has to cover their work in this area, and you claim groove metal doesn't exsist, which it does, so we are left with gap in the genre section. Thundermaster^{Thundermaster's Talk} 09:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

• www.ugo.com "Despite the setback of their shoddy first album, Fear Factory tightened its sound and as traditional death metal structures began to fade, they evolved into a popular industrial metal band while also incorporating a groove metal style. However, their sound has become so unique it seems to elude and genre, and arguments continue over the label that should be placed on them. This has also gotten them heard in the mainstream, and many say Fear Factory is a "stepping stone" for mainstream listeners to venture deeper into the underground."
• www.drownedinsound.com "LA's Fear Factory were once named Ulceration. They originally formed in 1989, but when the new decade dawned, it probably occurred to them that Fear Factory was a much better name for a combination of thrash metal, death metal, groove metal, 'industrial metal, metal metal and probably some other metals."
• edmontonmusic.com ""Ulceration" was not picked for any real reason other than that Burton C. Bell and/or other members thought it would "just be a cool name" for the band. They then renamed to Fear Factory in 1990. Characterized by a mix of thrash metal/'groove metal guitar riffs..."
• www.raymondherrera.com "Fear Factory Fear Factory was formed on October 31, 1990 in Los Angeles, California by ex-guitarist Dino Cazares and drummer Raymond Herrera. Characterised by a mix of thrash metal' (though Fear Factory sound more in the vein of groove metal) guitar riffs, roaring vocals that make way for melodic singing, pulse driven drum beats, and powerful basslines..."
  Groove metal is a correct genre Kameejl ^(Talk) 10:22, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Jay794, this discussion has no value whatsoever. Referring to this discussion in not a good reason to delete sourced content. Two editor agreeing on the non-existence of groove metal is not a reason to disallow groove metal in the article. Sources and citations are the way to go an wikipedia, not editor opinions. Please stop reverting valuable and sourced information. Kameejl ^(Talk) 18:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Obviously this is only POV. Some believe they are groove metal and others don't. Like I said on the Machine Head talk page, Standing in a muddy field thrashing your head around and beatin' the shit out of everyone around you doesnt sound very "groovy". Jay794 (talk) 19:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Kameejl. Just because two editors agree on something, doesn't mean you should then remove perfectly OK content that has reliable sources. You are the one using POV. Thundermaster^TRUC 15:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC) 09:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

At the time of the discussion it was unsourced, no one objected and it was removed. It's a higher priority to remove unsourced information (even temporarily) rather than find sources for it (What I didn't like was your uncivil attitude towards the issue.) Rehevkor (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Meshuggah reference removed

Removed the Meshuggah reference in "Categorization and Sound", since such a comparison is selective and mostly irrelevant to the subtopic. -Danteferno

Dynamo Open Air Festival?

Is this original work? What is the the Dynamo Open Air Festival? - Zoe

Hello Zoe. This is an original entry with facts gathered from around the web. cf http://www.dynamo.nl/ Birchtree

We still need at least a link to an article in the Wikipedia about the Dynamo Open Air Festival, or that sentence makes no sense in this article. -- Zoe

Agreed. Would you care to do so? Birchtree

Since I have no idea what it is, no. -- Zoe

The internet is very informative though, Zoe. You could investigate it, beginning with the link provided, if you like. Birchtree

I'm impressed, Birchtree! Never heard of the band, but it looks like a good article... However, I removed the phrase "with his mouth", considering it redundant. ;) And I've removed some of your HTML markup. Have a look at the code as it is now, and witness the power of wiki markup! :) Zoe - I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the sentence mentioning the Dynamo Open Air Festival not making sense. Presumably it's a music festival that took place in the open air. Surely that's enough to get some idea of what's being discussed...? -- Oliver P. 11:38 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

Damn. I quite enjoyed the 'with his mouth' bit, but fair do's. ;) Ta for rediting. ...You're quite right about Zoe's comment btw; it is a touch over-zealous to claim that merely because there is no entry for the festival the entire sentence doesn't make sense! A very strange claim. What's more, I felt the opening question of 'Is this original work?' was a touch patronizing and rude.

Still, I'll change the festival to a wiki link and leave it at that. Perhaps someone will wish to add the entry.

Birchtree.

No, no, Birchtree. It's just that we're not used to newbies turning up and suddenly writing brilliant prose round here. :) It is entirely understandable for people to be suspicious when it happens, and so I defend Zoe's opening question above. In fact, if someone suspects your writing of having been written by a professional journalist, you should take it as a compliment! Copyright infringements could harm the Wikipedia project, so it is essential for at least some of us to remain vigilant in this area. Zoe is a respected contributor around here, and so I think we should be more careful in future not to wind her up. -- Oliver P. 03:37 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Point taken, though there are simple ways and means of enquring as to the legitimacy of an article that don't risk getting the author's back up. Being so blunt is hardly any way to go on, 'respected contributor' or not. Birchtree 04:56 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Oliver, Dynamo Open Air Festival has no definition in the Wikipedia and no link to an outside source. There is no explanation as to why this is important or even worth mentioning. And I have no intention of writing an article about it. -- Zoe

Just to clarify, it was Birchtree, not me, who suggested that you might want to write an article on the festival.

The Wikipedia is still a young project, and there is still a lot that hasn't been covered; we can't do it all at once. Not everything that is mentioned in passing in an article can be expected to have an article of its own just yet. One of the great things about the Wikipedia is the way in which it continually invites growth. When someone thinks that something may require an article of its own, they can put in a link. If it comes up red, that is an invitation to add new content, which I think is a good thing. The responsibility of writing that new content does not rest solely with the person who originally mentions the concept, since this is a collaborative project. It may be expected that the person who first mentions something may have something more to say on the subject, but to expect them to write a whole article on something that is only mentioned in passing in one of their articles is a bit much. People have other things to do. I'm sure you can see that mentioning music festivals is an entirely natural thing to do in an article about a band, so I'm still a little baffled about why you are querying it. I think the sentence in question is illuminating, in that it suggests that the band's dedication to the production of new music outweighed their desire for public appearance. To better understand the sentence, is there anything that you need to know about the festival, other than the fact that it is an open-air music festival? If you have a specific query about the nature of the festival whose answer would help you to understand the sentence better, please ask it, and maybe someone will be able to find the answer. So far, all I can make out from your comments is that you personally haven't heard of the festival in question. I understand that not knowing things can sometimes be irritating, but there is much missing content from the Wikipedia, and I think that's inevitable at this stage. -- Oliver P. 03:37 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Hello to you. I've taken time out of a busy schedule to write up the D.O.A. festival. I hope this resolves the apparent rising tension here. :) --Birchtree

Phew! Well done. Maybe my time would have been better spent if I'd done the same, rather than composing that long-winded message above! -- Oliver P. 04:19 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Sometimes it's just better to rise above it, Oliver. I entirely agree with your point though, and considered making the same. --Birchtree

Fear is the Mindkiller, single or EP?

Fear is the Mindkiller single? Sure someone isn't just getting confused with the EP? There's so much song as "Fear is the Mindkiller".. --Lx

What is 'cyber-fast production'?

What, exactly, is 'cyber-fast production'? -CamTarn

There is no such thing as cyber-fast production and that theory is a figment of the writer's imagination.

The "Cyber" in "Cyber-Metal" comes from the futuristic themes and industrial elements present in their music, although cyber-metal is not really recognised as a genre; industrial metal is the accepted norm (factually speaking only; cyber-metal may actually be a good way to describe FF's mid-period sound). Someone needs to rewrite a lot of that section. If no one else does, I might later.

Inflammator 14:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Discography

In line with other music pages, I'm planning on moving the discography to another page, if that's OK. Same format and content, just a page of its own linked by a "See also". I'll do it when I get a chance over the next few days. This saves repetition and possible edit errors on information spread over several pages - many bands have individual member pages containing the discography repeated. IainP (talk) 16:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Who ever did the setup for Discography on this page, awesome, but don't like main Picture, change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Liquid 8

There are signed to Calvin Records.

~ Luke 'Self Biased Resistor' May.

Ulceration

Every reference I've ever read has cited Halloween 1990 as the exact day Fear Factory formed. In fact when the band was recording Digimortal, they celebrated their 10th anniversary on Halloween night with an in-studio party. It seems more likely that Ulceration is a band Ray and Dino were in before Fear Factory, and that FF proper began when Burt and Andrew joined. (James Hetfield was in a band called Phantom Lord in 1980, but you can't really say that Metallica formed in 1980 and were at first known as Phantom Lord.)

Anyone have any other sources on this? Wangoed 13:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Please restore what my filtered computer deletes

Please restore the link my filtered computer truncates. Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience, Randroide 16:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Death Metal?

Er, yeah, so how is FF Death metal...

Listen to Concrete and Soul of a New Machine. They started as a death metal band but changed into groove metal on Demanufacture. Markendust

Um, no thats just Heavy Metal, Death Metal is Cannibal Corpse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:30, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Learn about metal before you rant something like that. Heavy Metal is the umbrella term for all kinds of metal or generally classic metal. Fear Factory's genre lists Death Metal as 'early'. Thereby what you said is correct, and there's no need to say that. Although they're NOT groove metal. It may sound like it to new listeners as the start-stop riffs seem to match Pantera's, but this is also prevalent in Industrial Metal, which is the genre that's agreed upon about Fear Factory as the band's innovative fusion of genres sum up to the subsequent theme of the music, which is purely Industrial Metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.67.58 (talk) 20:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

If you can provide a legitimate source that states that the early Fear Factory albums aren't death metal, feel free to post it here. Until then, please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. Inflammator 13:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

• I don't even think that their early albums are true death metal. Yeah, they may be technical death at best, but true death metal, I think not. Undead Warrior (talk) 06:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

POV

a certain refrence to metal as the most bitter genre of music and a mention of how the drummer is able to duplicate the sound on the cd in real live is a testament to his technique seems a little POV to me

archetype

what the hell happened to the archetype article? its a fear factory album and there for should have an article

It does have an article. --70.92.64.125 07:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC) yeah because i redid it. some one delete it...

Thrash metal

I am removing Thrash Metal from the list of genres because Fear Factory only has elements of thrash metal in their sound and they are not a bona fide thrash band in any sense. The thrash elements that their music contains are fully covered by the groove metal tag; hence there is no need for the potentially misleading thrash tag as well. Inflammator 09:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

So it would also not be acceptable to call them Nu metal, as they seem to have some trappings of Nu but it is not their stock & trade?

Mischief Invasion?

Why is there no mention of the Mischief Invasion soundtrack disc?

Because it's either not a very important soundtrack, or no one has added it yet. Compilation albums always have to have a good backing to be on wikipedia. Undead Warrior (talk) 06:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Concrete fearfactory.jpg

Image:Concrete fearfactory.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 21:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Over 2000 shows since 2001?

So let's give them 6 years which equals 2190 days (or so). This means that they would be performing shows almost every night for 6 years straight? I don't think that is a very accurate line and it has no references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Violent.j.11 (talk • contribs) 05:24, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

They have toured quite a bit, but that figure does seem a little too much. I've removed it pending any sort of verification. Inflammator 12:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

What 6 years? since 2001 They've been touring for 9 years. Raymond Herra has said that in the DVD Digital Connectivity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:33, 11 October 2007

Do you mean that they toured during the 9 years prior to 2001? That's more than likely, but also rather obvious and not worth mentioning specifically as almost every working band tours while they are active and releasing new material. Inflammator 12:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes prior 2001 but actually Im not sure if it's 9 years but at least in between 9-12 but this is Wikipedia and people don't know this stuff so that's why that info is up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Nu metal

Don't you think the band should be classed as nu metal. Compare them to bandslike Spineshank. They are under that style. Futhermore, numetal is alternative metal and that is listed. 86.155.162.127 (talk) 14:57, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Fear Factory are in no way "nu metal". Any claims as such are ridiculous. Rehevkor (talk) 15:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

And why? That is basically calling alternative metal ridiculous. And anyway, do you have anything to prove your point? No. So tell me, why is it ridiculous? Thundermaster367 (talk) 09:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Because I've listened to their music? The only connection Fear Factory has with nu metal was that Obsolete was released during the hight of the nu metal era. Obsolete is quite clearly an industrial metal album. It's not my job to prove they're not nu metal as I'm not trying to add any unsourced information to the article, it's your job to prove they are. Can you prove they're nu metal? From what I can see adding disputed genres to articles is a habit you have, perhaps you should rethink your priorities? Rehevkor (talk) 13:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

That's true actually. The album did come at the time of the nu metal breakthrough but I can find elements of nu metal in there. Many I'm finding elements of alt. metal. OK, I'll stop with the disputed genre debates. ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 09:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of nu metal elements in Fear Factory's music. For example, there's a turntable in Edgecrusher and Bell raps on Digimortal. I know "nu metal" is considered a derogatory term, but sometimes things are what they are. They may not have those nu metal elements now, but Obselete and Digimortal are definitely laced with it. The KZA (talk) 07:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This is just a guy that's obsessed with Nu Metal, and is misunderstood about what that 'trend' 'genre' really is. Look, here: Nu metal is a term coined by the media to describe the music OF and bands who were influenced BY KoRn. KoRn however, was influenced BY Fear Factory. This is fact. Fear Factory were the first band ever to mix clean and brutal vocals together. They are a genre that's, let's just say, "less introspective" and "more artistically themed", type of music called Industrial Metal. Anyone who's confused about what genres are, should actually GO LOOK at the certain features of a genre on its respective wikipedia page. You'll see that Fear Factory doesn't come anywhere NEAR Nu Metal, because this band existed before it existed!... Just like Slayer influenced the RISE of Death Metal, but were never Death Metal themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.67.58 (talk) 20:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

When we ignore the negative connotations of the term (because most see it as a slur), yes, there is a dose of it in FF's music. Especially Digimortal. Metal Observer makes that observation, so for now I've added it to that album and this page (with the side-note that it refers specifically to that album). Prophaniti (talk) 20:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Thrash metal

I think we should add thrash metal as they clearly have some quite thrashy songs and since the apparently explained removal of groove metal nothing covers it. Thundermaster^{Thundermaster's Talk} 08:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider it a primary genre, there may be elements, but not enough to warrant adding it to the genre category, not by a long shot. Also, see here as to why it was removed the first time around. Rehevkor (talk) 22:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Fundamentally, we need a reliable citation. --Yamla (talk) 23:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I've posted some sources here. Kameejl ^(Talk) 12:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Rehevkor, you know that it was only removed becuase groove metal covered it. Thundermaster^TRUC 15:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC) 09:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Dino's page

Dino was the fat guitarist. Read it in the revision history. Now removed. Master of Metal (Have a chat!) 13:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Sources

This article has almost no sources until Obsolete. And the later history is very poor sourced. Every single sentence should be sourced. Have a look for example on Slayer or Red Hot Chili Peppers to have a picture about how a sourced article looks like. Everybody is welcome to add sources:

Use this for a source once:

<ref name="NAME (for example blahblah1)">{{cite web
| url = http://???
| publisher =
| title =
| author =
| accessdate = YYYY-MM-DD
}}</ref>

And then use that source again with this (many times):

<ref name="NAME (for example blahblah1)" />

Good luck! --  LYKANTROP  ✉ 17:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Nong 7

In the future section always appears that Fear Factory's album which will probably be out in 2009 will be called tentatively "Nong 7". Are there any references about that, maybe on their Myspace-Page or anywhere else? Because i cannot find any references about it.

Nong 7 is only a fake. 213.39.202.2 (talk) 19:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok thx for the quick answer :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.189.132.80 (talk) 09:18, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

How do you know it's a fake? Undead Warrior (talk) 15:29, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I dunno if it's a fake myself, but I wasn't able to find any credible information whatsoever. One entry on this article claimed the title was announced on the Myspace when I could find no such announcement. Personally the name alone sounds ridiculous enough to be fake. Rehevkor ✉ 15:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Live Pic in 2006

There is no way the picture posted is from 2006. Dino was not in the band in 2006, and the Fear Factory logo backdrop is from the Digimortal album, which was released in 2001. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.248.93.200 (talk) 04:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Seems the photo was uploaded the Flickr in 2006 so whoever uploaded it to here assumed that was the date. Rehevkor ✉ 15:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Just because the backdrop was Digimortal does not mean that the picture was not taken in 2006. Undead Warrior (talk) 15:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The fact that Dino had left the band in 2002 pretty much puts a line through both 2005 and 2006. The image name on the Flickr page is not necessarily a date, it could mean anything. Rehevkor ✉ 13:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

The image page on flickr says the picture was taken in 2005. This is not the date that the editor/uploader put in the top left, but rather the information found at the bottom left. Undead Warrior (talk) 02:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Well something went wrong somewhere. Because the photo couldn't possibly have been taken in 2005. For simplicity sake I'm going to remove the caption entirely. It's unnecessary. Rehevkor ✉ 15:41, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

What ever happens, we need to take a look at the editors on this article. I have been seeing edits that are being used to mask an edit war because one editor is using a different IP to edit each time. Undead Warrior (talk) 01:10, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

2002

2002, that was when Dino left the band. No way it was taken in 2006. The backdrop has everything to do with it. So no it was not taken in 2006. Trust me.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.248.93.200 (talk) 04:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC) You are incorrect. According to flickr, this was taken in 2005. December 10, 2005. Just look at the flickr page. Undead Warrior (talk) 19:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

The Flickr page is wrong. Dino was long gone by 2005. Rehevkor ✉ 19:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Death Metal?

Fear factory is not death metal, nor have they ever been. I have almost all of their albums, none of them have any death metal in them at all... they're not even metalcore. this is just thrash-ish industrial metal with louder bass.

A. most importantly: they don't have the death metal rhythmics.
B. they don't have the death growl.
C. their guitar work far more simple than that of even the most inexperienced death metal bands.
D. where's the blast beats?
E. and the rolling double bass kicks?

I suggest you listen to Soul of a New Machine. Rehevkor ✉ 01:16, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Concrete and Soul of a New Machine are clearly Death Metal albums. darkpenguin31

No they're not death metal. Death metal doesn't have clean singing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.151.175 (talk) 11:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you listen to Soul of a New Machine. Rehevkor ✉ 12:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

It's not pure death metal. Technical death metal maybe, but not plain death metal. I have all of their cd's and even some bootlegs and I have to agree that they are not death metal. Undead Warrior (talk) 13:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

News to me, listening to Concrete and SoNM it's clearly intended to be death metal. Not been able to find much to support technical either - I suppose they always intended to be a death metal/industrial band, "death metal-meets-industrial" as Roadrunner puts it, which could be considered a similar thing? Rehevkor ✉ 13:15, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

That covers it, it's technical or industrial death metal, and the inclusion of industrial metal and death metal would cover the area of the music's genre. Thanks, The Mad Muffin!^{Muffin Chat?} 11:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone take off death metal (early), they were not death metal, but industrial death metal. Even roadrunner states this. Undead Warrior (talk) 09:14, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

If cites are available, then put up the genre with cite. If not, then it's original research. With that roadrunner reference, my interpretation is 'industrial death metal', Jwoodger (talk) 02:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

We needn't add a sub-sub-genre, surely? Industrial death metal (early) would make it seem as if they used to be death metal, and are now industrial metal as opposed to industrial death metal...I'm not the most knowledgable in this regard...I think death metal (early) should be left up, but does anyone have any opinions in this regard? Thanks, The Mad Muffin!^{Muffin Chat?} 12:59, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

From FearFactory.com and RaymondHerrera.com's Webmaster

How do I get "official" information put into the wiki if the moderators say my involvement with the band is a conflict of interest? Until the legal issues are settled the wrong line-up is on the wiki and I need to change it.

Thanks,
Douglas A. Maske

CyberMartyr (talk) 04:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

You need to provide a reliable and verifiable source. But I'm sure this has all been mentioned to you before. Rehevkor ✉ 05:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Raymond would like to know who the reliable and verifiable source is that updated the wiki to the band line up listed. This band line up is incorrect until the legal issues are worked out. Also, if you're considering Blabbermouth a reliable and verifiable source you should re-think this. They are not only biased since they are owned by RoadRunner Records but they also accept articles from non reliable and verifiable sources according to Wiki's Nazi standards.

CyberMartyr (talk) 20:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Nazi standards? Sigh. I have mucho respect for Mr. Herrera but it's a shame he has someone with your attitude representing him. I'm done trying to help you. Good luck. Rehevkor ✉ 20:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually I don't feel you have tried to help me, in my opinion you've directed me to documents that pretty much states that Wiki will allow anyone with a media source update these pages and credible sources that work with the band like myself don't have access to do anything. I'm sorry if you took offense to my personal opinion of Wiki's rules and regulations but if I'm approaching this the wrong way tell me what's the right way in Layman's terms. Also you didn't answer my question, what "verifiable" source got the right to update the wiki with the information that is up there and is incorrect? I want to do this the right way but I have a problem with what has been allowed thus far. Please tell me why you feel I'm down the wrong path here? Also I think as a moderator it's childish to be "done trying to help" me when all I did was make a general comment about how I feel about the process that's in place. It's not an attitude it's an expression of fustration with the process in place. Is free speech not an option on Wiki? I'm sure there is a page on that too... I'm willing to discuss this via email with Raymond so we can come to an understanding how this is all suppose to work without coming to odds with each other. I'm also requesting a legal docket number from Raymond as a verifiable source.

CyberMartyr (talk) 22:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I am not a "moderator", I'm just someone who edits the wiki, but I has as much freedom to "moderate" as anyone else. A verifiable source is in layman's terms a source that other editors can check and verify. Taking someone's word, like you're asking us to do, is never an option. If you can't back up your claim with reliable third party/independent sources (such as news reports, articles, non-self-published sources etc) then there's nothing you can do. Even if it's true, "verifiability, not truth" as the policy says, without something to back it up it means nothing. Listen, I know this whole FF legal situation is hard on everyone involved, and everyone wants a voice, but Wikipedia is not a soap box, and unless news sources (as an example) start reporting your side of the story there's nothing that can be done about it. I have the deepest respect for Raymond and everyone in the band past and present but the situation you're in you have a conflict of interest any views will be biased in our eyes, and what you're trying to do it contradict the already established "truth", we can't just disregard reliable sources on your say so. If you want the truth to be known I suggest Raymond reach out to them (you suggested Blabbermouth was biased, despite their disclaimer "BLABBERMOUTH.NET is run and operated independently of Roadrunner Records." etc, as well as RR no longer having a stake in FF, perhaps you should take your side of the story to them for example) because Wikipedia is not the place for this. Regards, Rehevkor ✉ 22:45, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Mechanize or Mechanized?

Wikipedia said FF's album is going to be called "Mechanized" but now it says "Mechanize" What is right now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.118.56.7 (talk) 17:54, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Mechanize, see album cover. I updated the page for the album, this page and so on. Virus of Profanity (talk) 12:50, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The last half of the History section is way too long

The sections that cover the band's history from the 2000s onwards seriously need cutting down. They are all littered with a bunch of lengthy direct quotes from current/former band members mostly bitching about each other. People want to read a good summary of the band's history, not a collection of copied and pasted quotes. Not only are most people who are new to Fear Factory not going to bother reading through all those quotes, but Wikipedia isn't a place to host petty drama. It should be cut down and summarised in shorter paragraphs, with less reliance on direct quotes.Vicious Friendly Fish (talk) 12:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Extreme Metal?

I know the band is a difficult one to define as far as genres go, but the category extreme metal generally refers to music within the black metal, death metal or doom metal category. While there are certainly influences from extreme metal in Fear Factory's music, I think it would be wrong to categorize them as an extreme metal band. The subgenre 'industrial metal' (That Fear Factory frequently fall under) has never been considered a part of the extreme metal category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.144.41 (talk) 03:31, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

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Live bassists?

Hi guys. Many times I've tried to edit the live members section, reporting there all Fear Factory's bass players except Wolbers. In fact, the latter is the only bassist to be featured in some albums, namely Obsolete and Digimortal; all the other bass players, from Gibney (1989-1991) to Campos (since 2015), were taken over in studio by guitarist Cazares. Why do you keep on calling off my changes? If you read on Metal Archives the pages of Fear Factory's albums (save Obsolete and Digimortal), you'd find out that no bassists were involved in recording those works, or enjoyed rehearsals. Would you check them pages out, please? Thanks for your attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.45.191.32 (talk) 10:30, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Regarding missing citation of album Demanufacture used in Carmageddon and Messiah

Hi, I don't know the proper ways to edit these pages, so I'll leave it up to someone who does. I used to have the game in the 90's and played it a lot, and it does in fact use a few instrumental tracks from Demanufacture. I looked for 2 minutes and found this credits list from the DOS version and it states Fear Factory in the Music section https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/carmageddon/credits

I didn't play Messiah, but the same website lists similar results - Fear Factory is in the music credits section https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/messiah/credits

I also don't have a wikipedia account, so my email address is govercm@gmail.com November 25th 2016

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Album page move

Please see this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:43, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Cyberpunk music category

Someone (or some people) keeps removing Cyberpunk music under categories. The overwhelming majority of the lyrics/album concepts deal with Cyberpunk/tech/futuristic-dystopian themes, which have been noted multiple times throughout their career, with also consistent popular Cyberpunk genre influences such as Blade Runner & Terminator. JanderVK (talk) 23:14, 29 November 2021 (UTC)