Talk:Panettone

Bad Picture

non-traditional shaped loaf? why include a picture if it doesn't look like the real thing. i'm sure any of the dozens of manufacturers would be happy to have a picture of their loaf included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.107.130 (talk) 16:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Peru

Is the original pannetone really consumed in Peru? I undestand that it is eaten in Argentina and Southern Brazil because of the millions of North Italian immigrants.

But in Peru?? It's mostly an indigenous country. Could someone check that data? Please!

This fact is also posted on the Italian and French versions of Wikipedia, but since you have never heard of this fact, maybe we should delete this information on those pages as well. 75.62.139.21 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Peru is a multicultural country, which had a lesser Italian immigration. You may also be shocked to know that this mostly indigenous country also counts Chinese food as a staple. Indeed, Panettone is consumed throughout all regions during Christmas and New Year's. Pozole

Peru does have a strong Italian presence. It is not Argentina (in numbers), but particularly in the Coast and Lima has a very strong Italian Peruvian community. The biggest Ice cream company in Peru was D'Onofrio (Nestle Peru bought it in 1997), http://heladosdonofrio.blogspot.com/2007/11/historia-de-donofrio.html founded in 1911 by Pietro Donofrio. He came to Peru in the late 1800. Many Peruvian Italians have intermarried but the culture remains, particularly in the coast. Some Peruvians of Italian decent include one of Peru's biggest heroes Francisco Bolognesi, peruvian singer Gian Marco Zignago, comedian Ricky Tosso, former major of Lima in the 90's, Ricardo Belmont Cassineli, TV & Radio personality Guido Lombardi, several soccer players such as Flavio Maestri, Claudio Pizarro, Ronald Baroni among many others. Because of these links, after the US and Spain, the biggest Peruvian community of Peruvians outside of Peru is in Italy. User:Dantt777

I have no idea how this information got to be here, but I advise you to check the reliability of its content. As a 100% Italian, from a city very close to Milan, where Panettone originated, and passionate about cooking, I was horrified to read this nonsense about the half cooked panettone OR the fermented raisins. What a load of rubbish. Panettoni require a very long curing process. As they are raised with an acid yeast similar to sourdough, they need to be worked over several days in order to strenghen the yeast enough for it to give the cake its fluffy consistency. The raisins and lemon and orange peel, that are the typical taste of traditional panettone, must be of the best quality and are added dry, without prior soaking (as would be the case for instance in the English xmas pudding). As a final point, if Motta is one of the best known producers of sweets and cakes in Italy and abroad, it is by no means synonymous to Panettone. There are countless other brands that can boast just as old a tradition in the making of Panettone as Motta, and I can think of quite a few whose quality is by far superior. 18:32, 17 December 2003‎ 81.103.18.60

-I've made some changes based on your input, please let me know if it is correct. If there are some other sources, plese include them. Pozole 16:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm another one, just from Milano: Please, change everithing in the principal page, and save this one, that correctly describe the correct preparation of Panettone. Another thing: the traditoional Panettone shape is not high, even if it's true that Motta's one is rather high. With a diameter of 222, 24 cm, the corect highness is about 12-15, for about 1 kg. You have desribed a 2 kilos one.

-Some of the original information has been up for a very long time. The additions I made have been sourced. I never have heard of Panettone being half cooked but perhaps the original editor surmised this from the spongy consistency of the cake. I personally have not eaten Motta's pannetoni for years, since I noticed the quality is nowhere near what it used to be in my grandfather's time. Motta and Alemagna have ben included since they were pioneers of the export of pannetone to the rest of Italy and the world. Pozole 16:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

All families in Peru buy panettones in December and they eat them at breakfast and "lonche" (elevens) along with hot chocolate, also there are several companies that produce panettone in Peru, eg: Winter's, D'onofrio, Sayon, Motta, Bimbo, San Jorge, Gloria, Costa, Todinno, Bauducco, etc. so maybe you should come here first before talking (or writing) --†_JuanPa_† (talk) 06:42, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The so-called Panettone in Peru does not taste like authentic Italian Panettone. Citrons and lemons are not available here in Peru so they use candied papaya. Also the cakes are filled with so much artificial flavorings that the scent literally fills a room when you open and cut up one of the cakes. Also the sides on the bottom that touch the paper and usually burnt and have to be thrown out. These cake batter is obviously not cured or fermented properly. They are cheaply mass produced imitations.

Too personal

This article has a lot of personal references, which defeat the purpose of the encyclopedia.

Note to Editors: Kindly proof-read —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.194.34.103 (talk) 11:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Muffin-like?

To the user that has added the "fact" that panettone is "muffin-like", please provide some citations for this claim. As I stated in my edit summary when I reverted that addition, "Panettone is not at all like a muffin (at least, not shape, texture, taste, ingredients, consistency, density, ...)". You've shown no evidence to the contrary. Mindmatrix 15:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Scappi's recipe

Does anywhere know where Scappi is meant to have written his recipe for panettone? I spent three hours in my university's rare books collection trying to find it in the Opera without any luck. There are mentions of "tortiglioni ripieni alla Milanese" (p. 269), "tortiglioni alla Lombarda, fatti con butiro" (p. 270) and "torte d'amido" (p.274). These are, however, in book four which is just a collection of menus, without any recipes to go with them. I reckon that it must be the "tortigliona alla Lombarda, fatti con butiro" which we call "panettone" now, but there doesn't seem to be a recipe anywhere. Thomcurtis (talk) 02:04, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

From what I can tell folks are mistaking "panforte" in Scappi for "panettone". DG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.106.93.239 (talk) 05:34, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

History section

1. Since this section really begins with the 20th century, maybe it should be renamed "20th Century history" - there is an Origins section which is where history per se should probably be discussed.

2. Also, there are two ambiguous/contradictory statements within a sentence of each other a) "Italian bakers produce some 117 million panettone and pandoro cakes every Christmas — worth 579 million euros (416 million pounds)" and B) "Manufacturers offer variations of panettone stuffed with chocolate chips, figs, almonds, cream or even lemon liqueur or limoncello. The traditional recipe remains the favorite, with 50 million sold for Christmas in 2002." Is it 117 million at Christmas or 50 million? Sold where? Italy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bundas (talk • contribs) 02:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

This reference (from the Italian Wikipedia page on panettone) says that in 2008 almost 110 million panettone and pandoro have been produced in Italy, for a total worth of aout 600 million euros: http://www.ravenna24ore.it/news/ravenna/002553-panettone-sfida-crisi 85.218.106.16 (talk) 22:10, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Is it impossible that 117 million panettone was sold, but 50 million of them were traditional, or that was for 2002 only? --2604:2000:A14F:AC00:980B:48E0:A0B9:1804 (talk) 01:24, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

I see the OP's point (item 1). I swapped the "Origins" and "History" sections and renamed "History"->"20th century".
--Black Walnut (talk) 20:22, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

What about Galup panettone?

Is there really no mention of Galup panettone in the whole page?? Not even a single word? I understand it is a variation to the original recipe (it is basically shorter and features a hazelnut frosting) but is so well known and widespread in Italy that it deserves some mention in the page: it has an almost one-century long history now and it even gained the title of "caterer to the Royal House" back in 1937. Plus, the dialect noun galuperia (from Piedmontese galup, literally "delicious") is also used as a term to indicate a number of delicacies which are most typical of Piedmont, it is not just a matter of a mere panettone trademark.--Teno85 (talk) 00:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Do you have any sources about this that aren't about the Galup brand? (That is, about a generic, cultural food known as 'galup', not the company.) Mindmatrix 23:31, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I have sources for the concept of galuperia (often used in the plural form galuperie) as a reference to different culinary specialties from Piedmont, Northwest Italy: for example, http://www.ghironda.com/rubriche/arciere2.htm refers to a book entitled Galuperie del vecchio Piemonte (Delicacies from old Piedmont), while another book entitled Natale a Torino. Galuperie e altre storie (Christmas in Turin. Delicacies and other stories) is reported in http://www.ibs.it/code/9788866081449/natale-torino-galuperie.html?gclid=CNbo3_OygsoCFZadGwod4yILfw; there is also a number websites referring to galuperie in a generic sense (e.g. http://www.360-gradi.it/eventi/evento-le-galuperie-di-torino-speciale-cioccolato-0000165198.html).

As for galup as a singular noun, it is actually a brand founded in Pinerolo in 1922, so you can't really tell we have a cultural food known as galup (besides the brand itself). What I really meant is that Galup has such a solid history and is so well known in Italy that it deserves a mention in this article (it has its own page on Wikipedia Italian version), just like Motta and Alemagna brands which are both mentioned in this Wiki article.--Teno85 (talk) 01:36, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Known by different names

"Each country names the special bread differently" - do they? If we're talking about original Italian panettone, is it really called by different names in different places where it's appreciated? I have bought it in England and France and it's clearly seen as an Italian speciality and called panettone.

Pieter Brueghel

Anyone have evidence for it being in a painting by Pieter Brueghel, as claimed? I googled and found claims it is shown in The Peasant Wedding, but I looked at images of it and don't see one...

The article just says: "It is shown in a sixteenth-century painting by Pieter Brueghel the Elder", which is quite vague, and without any source. There is no mention at The Peasant Wedding and, like you, I certainly can't identify it in that painting. Suggest this claim is removed. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:24, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. Anyway, one would expect it to appear in a Christmas-themed painting. Wikipedia has an article that claims to list all his paintings. I saw no panettone amongst them. I added a "citation needed" flag, in the article, to help spur others into action.
--Black Walnut (talk) 21:05, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I suggest also that Brueghel didn't know anything about Panettone. The modern Panettonne is quite different from those before about 1930. The familiar shape is down to the commercialisation by bakers that include Angelo Motta.--Dorkinglad (talk) 12:23, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Further to these comments, I came here because Nigel Slater includes the Brueghel claim in his Christmas Chronicles (ISBN 978-0-00-826019-4), page 266: "The cake [ie. a Panettone] appears in The Peasant Wedding (1567), a painting by Pieter Brueghel the Elder, currently housed in the Kunsthistoriches Museum in Vienna." I'm no expert but, examining that painting as Martinevans123 did, I couldn't see anything even vaguely resembling a Panettone. Did Mr Slater even look at the Brueghel? I suspect not! But I wouldn't be surprised if he'd used this article as his source. Suggest the reference be removed before further confusion makes it into the published record. 86.31.203.225 (talk) 13:23, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Now expunged. My Slater should know better than to go trawling for material that might be a little overdone. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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