Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Northstar (demogroup)
This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was KEEP. —Korath (Talk) 16:49, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)
While I have actually heard of them, I hold the opinion that demo groups aren't particularly notable. What is the consensus on this? Radiant! 11:58, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
- A very valid question: Where do vintage-era demoscene groups fit into our community's notion of "notability"? Does this article offer any potential value to our readers, and does that value outweigh the costs of diskspace and hosting on our servers? A narrowed down search of "Northstar +Sweden +demo" returns about 1070 google hits, most of which are relevant. [1] Is google a fair metric when taking into consideration that this group lived and died years before a time when demoscene groups used the internet? Where does "the bar" lie for these organizations, and do the same rules apply to those who existed during the mid to late 1980s? No vote. GRider\talk 17:46, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Indeed a valid question. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a 'demo' as released by a demoscene is basically a piece of vanity - pretty pictures, music and/or special effects combined with a list of names and greetz. Quite frankly making such a demo is easy for any competent programmer, and therefore not notable. I do believe the demoscene originated in the pre-internet days, where they were part of the hacker/warez/courier scene, and served to promote one warez group over another. Several well-known names come to mind from the early PC scene, or MSX or C64 (BH Legend, Razor 1911 and TRSI, to name a few). Also note that these demos were often marvels of graphical efficiency in barely a kilobyte of assembly code. I would like some feedback and discussion on this matter, but I tend towards the opinion that the 'early' demoscene is notable, whereas the 'current' demoscene is not. Radiant! 22:21, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
- Well then by your own standard Northstar should be kept as they are old skool (1980s). ALKIVAR™
08:07, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Does that mean you concur with my standard? And note that I haven't voted yet. Radiant! 10:05, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
- On some level yes, Old skool demo groups (definate keep), New skool demo groups (award winners; those with an established presence; those that have a high google count; those mentioned in a mainstream press form eg. radio, tv, newspaper, magazine, etc...) that covers most of my noteability grounds. I do reserve the right to add to that :P ALKIVAR™ 10:18, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but at least we have established a bit of consensus here, which was the main point of this nomination. Keep. Radiant! 11:03, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
- On some level yes, Old skool demo groups (definate keep), New skool demo groups (award winners; those with an established presence; those that have a high google count; those mentioned in a mainstream press form eg. radio, tv, newspaper, magazine, etc...) that covers most of my noteability grounds. I do reserve the right to add to that :P ALKIVAR™
- Does that mean you concur with my standard? And note that I haven't voted yet. Radiant! 10:05, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
- Well then by your own standard Northstar should be kept as they are old skool (1980s). ALKIVAR™
- Indeed a valid question. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a 'demo' as released by a demoscene is basically a piece of vanity - pretty pictures, music and/or special effects combined with a list of names and greetz. Quite frankly making such a demo is easy for any competent programmer, and therefore not notable. I do believe the demoscene originated in the pre-internet days, where they were part of the hacker/warez/courier scene, and served to promote one warez group over another. Several well-known names come to mind from the early PC scene, or MSX or C64 (BH Legend, Razor 1911 and TRSI, to name a few). Also note that these demos were often marvels of graphical efficiency in barely a kilobyte of assembly code. I would like some feedback and discussion on this matter, but I tend towards the opinion that the 'early' demoscene is notable, whereas the 'current' demoscene is not. Radiant! 22:21, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
- Delete. Non notable. --Woohookitty 19:21, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep, but with reservations. Article needs cleanup and expansion. Megan1967 00:29, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep the myopia shown by the average deletionist tells me i'm in the wrong profession. How much does it take to go thru optometry school? does anyone know? Its a noteworthy group period. ALKIVAR™ 08:07, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- An ad hominem doesn't substantiate anything. Radiant! 10:05, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
- Its not ad hominem, its against a group not an individual for one, and for another i'm not specifically targetting you. I feel alot of the content of VfD falls under the "I've never heard of it so its not noteable" fallacy. ALKIVAR™ 10:22, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Its not ad hominem, its against a group not an individual for one, and for another i'm not specifically targetting you. I feel alot of the content of VfD falls under the "I've never heard of it so its not noteable" fallacy. ALKIVAR™
- An ad hominem doesn't substantiate anything. Radiant! 10:05, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. This oldskool Swedish demogroup is inherently noteworthy and has also cooperated with the legendary likes of Fairlight and The Silents. The article admittedly does need revision, but such that's what Wikipedia is made for. —RaD Man (talk) 09:34, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. Agree with both RaD Man and Alkivar's comments. --Andylkl 11:44, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
- "and does that value outweigh the costs of diskspace and hosting on our servers?" - What costs? Keep. Dan100 19:40, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
- keep Yuckfoo 04:13, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.