Talk:Divination

"-mancy" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect -mancy and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 11#-mancy until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. CycloneYoris ^talk! 08:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

First paragraph is uncited and most likely incorrect

(Note: this edit is in support of a listing in WP:YWAB[1] and to Talk:Dream interpretation#Proposed merge of Oneiromancy into Dream interpretation.)

The lead currently reads:

 "Divination (from Latin divinare 'to foresee, foretell, predict, prophesy, etc.') is the attempt to gain insight into a question or situation by way of an occultic, standardized process or ritual"

with a dead link to "Lewis and Short's Latin Lexicon via the Perseus Project (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu)". Searching perseus.tufts.edu for "Divination" brings me to:

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2007.01.0043

"There is an ancient belief, handed down to us even from mythical times and firmly established by the general agreement of the Roman people and of all nations, that divination of some kind exists among men; this the Greeks call μαντική—that is, the foresight and knowledge of future events. A really splendid and helpful thing it is—if only such a faculty exists—since by its means men may approach very near to the power of gods. And, just as we Romans have done many other things better than the Greeks, so have we excelled them in giving to this most extraordinary gift a name, which we have derived from divi, a word meaning 'gods,' whereas, according to Plato's interpretation, they have derived it from furor, a word meaning 'frenzy'."

The above comes from De Divinatione (Latin, "Concerning Divination"), a philosophical dialogue about ancient Roman divination written in 44 BC by Marcus Tullius Cicero.

Two problems:

First, the citation says nothing about any sort of "standardized process". It is pretty clear that different diviners used different methods and zero evidence that there was a "standardized process" of divination. Second, something written in Latin in 44 AD is not a good source for the meaning of a 2023 English word that happens to have latin roots.

I encourage someone who knows this topic well to rewrite and properly cite the lead section. Otherwise, unless someone objects, I will change "by way of an occultic, standardized process or ritual" to "by way of an occultic ritual" and replace the cite to Cicero with "[Citation Needed]". --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Two weeks with no response, so I made the change. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 14:14, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Then again, while uncited, the first paragraph does not seem in any way misleading. For does it not give a reasonable outline of Divination? If not, are there not many quotes that make the same point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.75.94 (talk) 16:19, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

The first paragraph is most likely correct (without the "standardized process" bit, which someone appears to have pulled out of their hat). But on Wikipedia being correct isn't enough. Click on WP:V and read why. Do you have a source that defines the term? Hopefully something newer than 44 AD which defines the English word, not the Latin word it came from. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 22:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

This is now correct and sourced. See [ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Divination&diff=1182355980&oldid=1182013837 ]. Unwatching page now; please ping me if my input is needed on something. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 13:03, 9 December 2023 (UTC)